Navigating to "xxx.0" TWA
Post by iconPost by Irish Temper | 2020-04-24 | 17:06:49

Hi All,

Sorry if this has already been covered (search function would be great).

I think I've noticed a trend with some of the big name boats and so maybe it's coincidence...

When I use the dashboard and look at another top boat's TWA, a lot of the time I see: 145.0.

On my boat I'm always between .1 and .4 different. ie. 145.3

When I view the polars, the polar indicates for a given set of conditions that 145.0 TWA is the optimum. I see the good guys TWA set to 145.0. I can't get that to happen on my boat and I usually see something like 145.1 - 145.4.

Is there a way to set my boat's TWA to an exact number? Is this a reason why some boats are just sooo fast all the time because they are more often sailing the optimum angle?

Thanks in advance!

David
Irish Temper

commenticon 25 Comments
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2020-04-24 | 17:34:33
That's been already discussed somewhere on the forum.

You can do it with the programmer:

- Set a program 10 minutes ahead WITHOUT TWA lock.
- Lock the TWA
- Check resulting TWA in the dashboard
- If not proper, unlock the TWA and move the programmer a minute or few again.
- Repeat to point 2 until satisfied
- Move the programmer 10 minutes from now. TWA stays locked

Same thing works when programming your next tack. Find the spot where the TWS is integer, lock and slide the time to the correct one.


Post by iconPost by Irish Temper | 2020-04-24 | 18:43:00
Awesome! Thank you I'll give it a try. :)

Thanks for all you do!

David.
Post by iconPost by Austen | 2020-08-31 | 06:28:12
Hi David, were you successful with the TWA fine tuning? i keep trying to follow these instructions, but can't quite get it exactly right...I've managed to move a few decimal points but can't get it to stay on my desires angle...
Austen
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2020-08-31 | 13:47:12
When the wind is shifting rapidly, moving the unlocked course a minute or two can move the TWA by more than 0.1 degree. So sometimes it's impossible to do it at a particular location. So sometimes you need to push the scheduled maneuver a few hours into the future, to a place where the wind isn't shifting as aggressively, do this process to get the TWA angle you want, and then bring it back to the desired time. Really annoying, particularly if you're in a hurry.
Post by iconPost by BooBill | 2020-08-31 | 14:57:06
Also, check the polars to see if it's even worth the effort. There are peaks and valleys in polars in some places, then it's clearly important to be on a peak. Sometimes it's a smooth interpolation, and wouldn't make any matterial difference. Often it's just important to be on the right side of a particular angle. Going past a max VMG number for instance will usually see a rapid fall off in speed, but being a fraction inside the angle might have an identical VMG.
Post by iconPost by Austen | 2020-09-08 | 05:40:46
thank you Mom and Bill for that assistance. Those comments both make good sense.
Post by iconPost by NumeroDixTV | 2020-12-16 | 13:58:39
Hello,
Sorry to ask again but i can't do it with consistency. Sometimes it's perfect (like .000) sometimes it doesn't work at all.

Could someone please explain again the exact pattern ?

When you say "unlock/lock twa" you mean the one from the programmer or the one we have right now ?
At the end, do you keep the programmer or do you cancel it ?

Thanks for your help!
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2020-12-16 | 14:14:17
It's a royal pain. Don't expect it to be easy.

Also, when this was written, Dashboard had one decimal of accuracy. Getting to xxx.0 is realistic with some patience. Getting to xxx.000 is lunacy.

You set a programmation for the desired TWA, and confirm. Check dashboard to see what locked. If it isn't what you want, you open the programmation page, go into your scheduled move, unlock it, move it a couple minutes, re-lock it, and confirm. Then check dashboard again to see what you got. Repeat this until you get what you want. Then keep it. Your boat won't sail the desired angle until the xxx.0 programmation actually occurs.

Sometimes, the wind is shifting slowly, so you need to move by more than a couple minutes. Sometimes a lot more. Sometimes it's wavering back and forth, so after shuffling your schedule to get to .1, it goes back to .2, which can be really annoying. Other times, the wind is shifting rapidly, and moving even just one minute goes from .9 to .1. So sometimes, it's easier if you push the programmation point several hours into the future, to a place where the wind is shifting at a steady and moderate pace. Then get what you want. Then bring it back.

But also keep in mind that if often isn't worthwhile. It may be worthwhile when you'll be sailing the same VMG angle for many hours, or when you're sailing an angle that the polars show as a sharp angle where being on the wrong side causes a sudden dropoff in speed. In other cases, it isn't worth it. Also, keep in mind that the gains from this are usually tiny. One other mistake, or one unexpected sailchange, will negate days of trying to get the perfect angle.

Post by iconPost by NumeroDixTV | 2020-12-16 | 14:19:47
Thank you very much, that's more than the answer i expected :)
I gonna try again !

Edit : it works perfectly, thank you so much !
Post by iconPost by whereami | 2020-12-17 | 01:10:42
Does the "spin the compass 360 degrees" trick work for TWA like it does for HDG? (I'd test it, but I'm sailing to a waypoint right now.)
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2020-12-17 | 01:21:28
No
Post by iconPost by Avontuur | 2021-03-03 | 17:29:58
In the dashboard the TWA is now also .000 when you change it. it looks like the last update has this new feature

Actions: TWA=-132.000 TWA=-125.000 @ 3-3-2021 19:38:00 CET; TWA=-140.000 @ 3-3-2021 20:50:00 CET;
Actions: HDG=139.000 TWA=-125.000 @ 3-3-2021 19:38:00 CET; TWA=-140.000 @ 3-3-2021 20:50:00 CET;
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2021-03-04 | 03:43:04
Yup. It's great in that it takes away the sometimes enormous effort required to gain a tiny advantage while also giving unknowing players without Dashboard an equal chance to hit the same angles as those with Dashboard... But... It will likely also result in far less dispersement of the fleet during the first few hours of each race. We'll see a lot more boats sailing identical angles rather than slightly different angles depending on exactly when they set their TWA. It'll still spread out eventually, though.
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2021-03-05 | 10:30:50
it's real? Or only a newly limited information from the game?
It's possible to check that?
Post by iconPost by Hardtack | 2021-03-05 | 11:23:16
Yes, it's all in the 'RACE LOG': the 'Command' entries show the commands issued to the server, and the other lines show the boat heading/TWA reported by the server.
Post by iconPost by BooBill | 2021-03-05 | 13:13:57
You've also now lost the ability to sail a fractional TWA should you desire to do that. Trying to finagle a 112.5 twa using the same method we used to get integers just rounds to the nearest whole number.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2021-03-05 | 17:37:27
That's probably fine. Toxxct's polars will sometimes show optimal TWA's that are fractional, but you'll usually find that the nearest whole number is just as good. The fractional one's benefit is usually in the thousandths of a knot of VMG, if not small enough to be rounded to zero thousandths. And usually, there are tactical reasons why sailing a bit higher or lower than perfect may be better than gaining 0.001 kts anyway.
Post by iconPost by BooBill | 2021-03-05 | 18:49:47
I was thinking more about the case where 122.5 was the line you want, rather than switching back and forth between 120 and 125.

It may sound like nitpicking, but it's going to get harder and harder to separate yourself from the pack through little trim optimizations. Going to have to do it the old-fashioned way and make a divergent weather call.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2021-03-06 | 04:36:09
Good thing I enjoy divergent weather calls.
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2021-03-06 | 10:39:15
The last months the TWA was very stable. Now it's not. I doubt about this XX.000.

Post by iconPost by yucatan | 2021-03-06 | 14:36:05
is it possible to get in the same time HDG:xxx.000 and TWA:xxx.000(in your example).
it's very very strange...
before,that never happened.
Post by iconPost by Avontuur | 2021-03-06 | 15:50:59
no that is not the case, I copied the actions, not the actual situation.
it is either TWA .000 or HDG .000
Post by iconPost by Tejo | 2021-03-07 | 17:50:35
In real world wind direction is not steady (it varies in same location in seconds). Why to be so desperate to get an exact TWA? Is it because we are not in the real world? I am a guy that is happy with a 10% position between race competitors, I would like to improve but I really don't see how the exact TWA will help me!
I take this chance to express my most deep admiration to Cvetan and his extraordinary Zezo. Congratulations also to VR Dashboard and to its author.
Post by iconPost by BooBill | 2021-03-07 | 22:06:21
If you look at the polars, there are some really sharp peaks and valleys. For instance for the Maxi Tri at 30knts wind speed, there is a 0.1knt boat speed difference between 150.0 twa and 149.5.

Prior to VR making this change a lot of people would be at 149.5 (which would show as 150 in the interface) and losing 2.4 miles a day to the leaders and wondering why.
Post by iconPost by falcon470 | 2021-03-30 | 09:35:47
In my opinion, deciding your own splitting of the twa according to the polars made the game more beautiful because it required more application and study of the conditions. Surely now we lose much less time but I preferred earlier.
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the prawn star
9
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polars virtual regatta
8
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how to convert Grib files to Grib2?
3
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VSR, XP points
7
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Predicted times
3
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Nord Stream *3*
11
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Game on 12Z, but Zezo still working with 06Z
3
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race wait points
1
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special boats?
7
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VR Dashboard in Firefox?
6
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ESCARGOT CLASS
11
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Los Angeles - Honolulu
26
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Rounding a Buoy
12
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VR Waypoint Heavy Bug Reporting
3
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Time of ending Jules Verne
4
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Shore detection by Zezo
2
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Nord Stream Race 2
7
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Trying to Break the VR Map Mistery !
3
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Navigating to "xxx.0" TWA
26
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Tara4 - no refresh
2
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Jules Verne: Inconsistency of headings and speeds, simulation !!
5
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VR, Zezo, Qtvlm card offsets
2
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Island's coordinates
34
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Tara Ocean 4
6
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Solo Maitre Coq
21
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Adjustable timeshift ?
3
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gate crossing question
7
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Expanded View on PC
3
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Panic at VR Nord
7
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Delays during the sail changes, or directions changes
3
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(Game wind = Zezo wind ) ⍯ (Grib winds = Windy.com)
7
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VR ending the ELO ranking.
34
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NMEA feed
128
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Dashboard Map Track Label not including the segment.tag
5
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VR ingame time
6
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VIRTUAL REGATTA and Phillip Ganier. Worst and worst every day...
7
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beta.realsail.net
2
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Escort Frigate
6
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Out of memory. If you are the developer of this content ....
17
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Question about GFS Grib
5
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RORC Caribbean 600
14
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sliding VSR
16
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Trying to use Zezo to select best combination of sails to select
7
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TARA OCEAN 3
9
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RORC Transatlantique Race
6
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Game appears stuck on 00Z weather from yesterday
4
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Sydney to Auckland
28
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Personal Message pages deleted
7
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New zezo fonction
2
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VR Ranking 2021
7
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Autosail malfunction
3
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Comments from a newbie to "long term" routing
1
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Massive thanks to Cvetan
7
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Fleet section mode record not working
2
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Possible routes on the Map tab
3
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Purple skippers on VR Dashboard
3
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UTC or CET time ?
2
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multiple routes?
2
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Real Sail
4
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Map a little gloomy
8
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Trophée Jules Verne - Route à l'envers ?
2
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Looks like weather updates offline for next 18h
26
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Bring the good old days back
7
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All.grib 0.0k ?
9
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different speed
3
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Strange 0.5 mille VR Scale
3
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Just an idea for a new feature...
7
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Connexion impossible
1
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Donations
7
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New leader - seems to be using Zezo
38
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Bravo Zezo
4
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zezo : Huge job - Huge thx
2
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Difference between boat speed display on VR, dashboard and polar curves
7
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Vendée Globe: Track lines falling too short of ischrones
8
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Tara Ocean
29
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VR winds currently not up to date ?
1
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"Sails Change" within the Programming
3
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RORC Transat finish moved to Antigua
3
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Weather update not appearing...
19
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Dashboard not updating.
6
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Boats Skins Vendée Globe
3
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Safari on iOS: Bearing lines gone
3
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Wrong coordinates in zezo
2
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Winds in the chart do not show changes between 78 hours and 114 hours forecast
2
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Decoding of All grib
6
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I CANNOT ENTER FOR 3 HOURS IN THE GAME
23
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Why the vc data is yellow underlined ?
3
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Jules Verne 2020 - "Start NOW" discrepancy VS real time
7
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Would like to know the reasenable time to update your pisition on zezo
16
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Arrival Vendée Globe in Normandy !!?
4
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MIssing the Obvious: How to get Zezo routes back into VR
2
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VG 2020-01-02 has Zezo a problem with geographic or ...
8
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How to retrieve a waypoint (TWA/HDG) that already passed...
16
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Track duration window
3
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Ways to bypass the client to give orders?
6
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Problem to Load zero route in windy.com
40
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French tutorial for zezo
4
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boat positioning
2
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Export routes in GPX format ?
4
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Sail selection issue ?
11
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Your friends boats in Google Earth
2
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Delay in Wind update ?N
1
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VR Dashboard
54
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Colone Tile red
3
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Destination setting - Fixer la destination
2
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Anyone else experiencing erratic course changing behavior?
9
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Looks like game winds not updating.
6
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difference between wind on he map and wind on the route
8
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Cape Horn route is not possible it is crossing land
6
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Lost the lines..
2
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all.grb question
3
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2 routings ?
1
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What point or line is being used to determine the rankings?
61
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180 degree bug and downwind track
11
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démarrer avec zezo au milieu de la course
2
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Local times in the charts
1
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red and green lines ahead of isochrones
13
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20 Minute tack
6
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nemo point challenge problem
8
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Nemo Point Challenge
51
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Point Nemoers
1
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Route doesn't give prediction over 24h anymore
7
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Iterations on server & Zezo
5
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Sidney-Hobart 2020
3
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To day zezo don’t give me any route
6
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Fatal Grib error tonight ?
2
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predicted times JV
3
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Loick Peyron uses zezo, the best virtual sailing router ;)
9
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Orthodromy vs loxodromy around the poles
6
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Strange 1st dot heading
3
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Campbell Island
4
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VR bugs and rants
11
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Cap constant, ou angle au vent ? Constant heading, or wind angle?
18
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Colors of wind in the chart
4
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Virtual Regatta API
2
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Compliment
12
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Cap Horn bug
3
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New forecast unavailable
32
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a boat and 2 races
7
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Red timestamp in Dashboard
16
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Game frozen @ 15:30 GMT?
6
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ice exclusion zone for VG
82
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La meilleur voile
4
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Ice limit changed
19
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Ice limit penalty
29
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Action table no more on the race page
3
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la flotte du VR n'apparait pas sur zezo sur mon Macbook alors que je me suis bien identifié, mais que le joue sur Ipad
2
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Problem with blue, red and green lines
13
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NMEA to Google Earth
23
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Dashboard 3.14.1 is reporting wrong TWD in NMEA
6
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DTL in Dashboard?
6
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Who is writing in zezo???
1
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lignes des glaces differentes ZEZO et VR
8
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Jibs speed penality
2
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Récupération de la position des bateaux (amis ou suivis) depuis ZEZO vers QtVlm
14
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Plus de données notée
3
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weird new behavior /!\
2
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Inconsistency btw green line and isochrone
2
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Mobile Apps Weather4VR and SailGrib4VR
12
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Basic game question
7
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No more wind indications?
8
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Coordinating timing start of route calculation with position
6
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Difference between Zezo gribs and zezo chart
3
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routing and boat speed
6
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Isochrones missing after 105°E
6
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GREAT Jean Le Cam - Viva Eric Escoffier!
4
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ZEA (Antarctic Explosion Zone) not up to date on the Dashboard
4
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Lignes noir / bleu / rouge ne s'affiche plus
3
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ICE LIGNE
13
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Problem on visual MAP on Dashboard 3.12.11
5
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CDN test #3
18
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zezo polars vs VR polars
5
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Nardin Watch challenge
3
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Little square in toggle tracks ?
3
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CDN test
6
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Data underline in red in dashboard
2
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Some changes - caching/CDN
11
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VR Dashboard Version 3.13.1
11
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Zone de glace
3
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Bugged buoy in the programmer turns the yacht at heading 0,0
13
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New VR failure mode
13
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10-minute between predicted Zezo TWS and actual game TWS
4
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New server for Zezo?
16
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When does the red exclusion line whill be extended?
5
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Are the polars static? Seems some creep since start.
11
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How to find best TWA for positions in the future - Question for beginner
6
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Starting now to use ZEZO
2
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algorithm current position and speed
7
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VR winds issue
24
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NMEA and AIS Yes ! but....
1
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Display forecast timestamp
2
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Server still down ? Server de nouveau au tapis ?
9
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manage several NMEA outputs with VR dashboard
4
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NMEA message format
12
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New Feature
3
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Foils
3
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VR Dashboard v3.12.10
31
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Toogle Tools
3
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Error Winds display
2
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flip-flop hours Grib confused following this morning's article
6
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Ligne noir/rouge
7
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